Real HDMI will be pulled (Voluntarily) from Market

This is a discussion on Real HDMI will be pulled (Voluntarily) from Market within the Droid X General Discussion forums, part of the Droid X Discussion category; ---------12/13/2010--------------------------UPDATE--------------------------- Verizon/Motorola have released the 2.2.1 update for the droid X. While they have never formally acknowledged the HDMI bug listed below it appears they ...


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Thread: Real HDMI will be pulled (Voluntarily) from Market

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    Real HDMI will be pulled (Voluntarily) from Market

    ---------12/13/2010--------------------------UPDATE---------------------------
    Verizon/Motorola have released the 2.2.1 update for the droid X. While they have never formally acknowledged the HDMI bug listed below it appears they have indeed fixed it with the 2.2.1 update. If you are running 2.2 and are using RealHDMI extensively we strongly recommend you upgrade your phone to 2.2.1 as it will eliminate the possibility of phone freezing up whenever HDMI output is used on the phone.

    ---------11/13/2010----------
    Real HDMI is back on the market and if all goes well it will remain on the market.

    The bug in the operating system kernel still exists in the the Droid X for those that have the 2.2 update on their phone. Currently Motorola/Verizon have not released a fix to the bug. https://supportforums.motorola.com/message/245559
    This means that there still is a chance that phone will "freeze" up any time HDMI output it used. This can occur when using Real HDMI or the gallery application. The bug in question is the same bug that is causing the "freeze on the M" at boot on some phones. Motorola has been promising a fix but has yet to release it. Any use of HDMI output with a phone with the Android 2.2 update could potentially cause your phone to freeze, and require you to remove your battery to reset the phone.

    The blockbuster app doesn't look like its ever going to be able to work with HDMI out. They appear to be testing for screen size when trying to play the video, and there is nothing look like there is anyway around that.
    11/11/2010---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Real HDMI will be back on the market starting the morning of November 13th and we hope will be able to remain on the market.

    Have been working out the logistics and am bringing on another developer to help with support and to hopefully give me more time to focus on development and maybe spend less times on the logistics of distribution etc. If all goes well the app will stay on the market unless Motorola does something to break it even worse then HDMI support already is in 2.2 or if we start running into problems with the marketplace again.

    After this weekend there might be a slight increase in the price of the app as I am having to work out some compensation for the second developers time and it will better allow both of us to deal with our spouses they next time they harass us about why we are "working on the stupid phone app again". :-)

    10/27/2010 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Real HDMI will be back on the market for the weekend of October 30th-31st to allow folks to download updates and purchase it if they need to on their phones. Just minor bug fixes in the planned release. Still waiting on a kernel fix for LCD display problem when turning off HDMI.


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    10/17/2010
    Well the updates/limited distribution this weekend didn't go as bad as I thought it would. Still tons of downloads from people who don't have Droid X and somehow thought the text of "Only Works on Droid X" wasn't serious. sigh......

    The HDMI bug still seems to be either being ignored my Motorola at this point, or they have fixed it and just not bothering to tell anyone. It appears that the "stuck at M" on boot might actually be related to the LCD display not turning back on after HDMI being turned off.

    Until Motorola releases a patch to the kernel will continue to put app back up to allow people to redownload/update the app as I come up with bug fixes. Right now I have two tree's in my codebase. The 1.5.X tree that everyone has and a 2.0 version that runs completely as a service and doesn't require app to keep running. (2.0 will be a free upgrade for folks) But I am not going to release the 2.0 code as an upgrade until I see what Motorola does with potential fixes as I don't want to tip my hand on how I am doing things differently in case they try to block it.

    Will try to give folks a better heads up on when the app will be back up on the market, or if I get an alternative distribution scheme finalized. Right now leaving the app up all the time isn't practical until Motorola comes up with a kernel fix.

    10/16/2010 -------------------------------------UPDATE--------------------------------------------------
    As of this writing I still have not received any official information from Motorola about whether they acknowledge the bug in the kernel display drivers on the Droid X that was introduced in 2.2 OTA update. (https://supportforums.motorola.com/m.../245559#245559) I have been passing significant amount of information to Motorola but as of the last week even those who had been responding about the bug have gone silent.

    The Google/Android Market Place is pretty much broken and doesn't behave as advertised by Google. They state that they retain copies my application to allow users who purchase the app to re-download it if necessary. I now know that this really isn't the case. If I "unpublish" my application to keep it from being purchased it removes it so even those who have purchased it can't re-download it if they reset their phone.

    As a compromise for the folks who "HAVE TO HAVE" the Real HDMI application am going to be periodically returning the application to the market to allow individuals who already purchased the app to receive updates. And to allow folks that understand the Kernel bug can get the app. This weekend will be the first of those weekends. 10/16/2010->10/17/2010 will temporarily have the application back up on the android marketplace. Will be "unpublishing" it again come Monday. This time of sporadic publishing its just a workaround until I am able to work out the logistic of moving things over to a more flexible/reliable distribution channel for the application.

    The HDMI output bug (https://supportforums.motorola.com/m.../245559#245559) occurs when you disable HDMI output and the phone "tries" to turn the display buffer for the internal LCD display back on. Under certain situations the display buffer seems to be asleep due to power saving settings that I have yet figured out how to disable. When this happens the display buffer/controller doesn't receive the signal to turn enable (must be on to receive enable command). At this point the phone pretty stupid and won't renable the LCD display until phone is turned off. Since the bug occurs during a specific set of events where power management seems to kick in, its possible that bug doesn't occur at all on a phone due to how folks use the phone while using HDMI output. For example playing a video usually doesn't trigger the bug (CPU is in use), but playing a video then letting phone sit for a while after video is over (CPU goes idle) will often trigger the bug. This bug can occur even when not using Real HDMI and when just using default Gallery/VideoPlayer on a Droid X with Android 2.2 installed.

    Best Case Scenario if bug occurs:
    If this occurs while real HDMI is still running you can reenable HDMI output (using tillt method or shake method depending on how you have it configured) and the HDMI output will enable the HDMI output. At this point you can hit the power button and select "power off" then power the phone back on and things should be working like normal again.

    Worse Case Scenario:
    Phone gets REALLY confused and a kernel exception occurs. The phone will appear to have frozen content on the screen. The HDMI output can't be reenabled and you will have to pull the battery out of the phone, wait 30 seconds, then put it back into the phone and power phone back up.

    09/30/2010 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Due to a large variety of snowballing reasons I am pulling the Real HDMI application from the Android market place.

    I want to make it clear that am not abandoning those who have already purchased the application. On the contrary my decision is based completely on me being able to maintain support for those who have already purchased the application. In the coming days will be releasing some updates for Real HDMI including the full background service mode that everyone has wanted. So Real HDMI can run completely in the background as a service. As well a numerous bug fixes. I plan on continuing to support existing users of the application and providing bug fixes to things I can fix. But will be restricting the purchase of the application until Motorola or Verizon provide a patch to return the Droid X to being a stable android platform.


    Issue #1 = Droid X 2.2 is broke and I can't fix it.
    There is (at least one) critical bug in the Droid X 2.2 that causes a statistical chance of the Droid X LCD Driver to crash when transitioning from HDMI ON → OFF. This bug occurs when using Real HDMI or the built in Gallery application when HDMI is disabled. This is a kernel bug which I have described on the Motorola forums: https://supportforums.motorola.com/thread/38053
    I can't in good conscience continue to sell/provide an application that will potentially crash someones phone no matter how much effort I put into the code. I am working out a method with Google to continue to provide updates to those who have already purchased it without allowing for new purchases.


    Issue #2 = I don't have time to supply level of support application now requires under 2.2
    The instability in the Droid X as a platform under 2.2 has caused the email volume to skyrocket. Am trying to respond to 300+ “new” emails a day, not including those email threads from individuals on previous days. I barely have enough time to support those who have already purchased the application and shown their support for my efforts without continuing to add more individuals to that list by leaving app up for purchase on the market.

    Issue #3 = Android Marketplace model is broken
    The Android marketplace does not provide a friendly environment for a developer to target an application at a subset of android users and punishes those who try. Combine the inability to manage the distribution of my application through the marketplace with Google always giving the purchaser the benefit of the doubt and its an unfriendly developer environment. The settings that is supposed to limit application availability just doesn't work. I have Real HDMI set to only be set to be visible to Droid X 2.2 phones on the Verizon network. But I deal with a hundred or more charge back requests a day from EVO users who still are able to purchase the app and do so without reading app description with states its for Droid X only. I am now dealing with more charge back/refund requests from users of other phones then seeing actual purchases from Droid X users. The high level of charge back/refund requests is putting my marketplace account in jeopardy of being suspended.

    Conclusion:

    Issues #2 and #3 have been issues I have been dealing with since day one and have up to this point have been manageable. The instability of the Droid X since the 2.2 patch has combined with problems from fake "gman" posts on EVO forums to make the current state of the project unmanageble. So much so development of the application has almost come to a halt. Now that the I understand the full extent of the critical bug listed in #1 I have come to the conclusion its best to pull the application from the marketplace for all new purchases. It is my hope that by pulling the application from the market it will give me time to restructure and rework how Real HDMI is provided to its users, give Motorola time to provide much needed fixes for the Droid X platform, and allow me to concentrate on supporting those who have already purchased the app.

    I love my Droid X and continue to use it every day. And am look forward to continuing development on it. But the state of the operating system on the phone is requiring me to take a step back with the Real HDMI project until issues with the phone can be resolved.
    Last edited by gman; 12-13-2010 at 09:26 PM.

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  3. #2
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    Thanks for the heads up and best of luck on the development, I'm sure you'll keep us updated.

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    Will X users be able to get a refund?
    A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.

    Only the Skilled Survive

    A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila.

    Drill Sergeant Frick's Rules For Un-armed Combat.
    1. Never be unarmed.
    2. See Rule #1

    USMC rule # 23 of gunfighting: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.



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    RealHDMI is awesome. I stream live TV to my TV because I'm too poor for cable or too lazy to hook up one of my PCs. Maybe I don't use it enough but I haven't had a problem.
    FRIENDS FOREVER

    MIUI gets me hot like Kelly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Backnblack View Post
    Will X users be able to get a refund?
    Read his post... the app is being pulled from the market. If you already bought it and used it for the last month, you aren't getting a refund. He's attempting to support the CURRENT users of the app, rather than create more users that will be unhappy.

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    You should just sell it from your website, make it a non-market app. Plenty of niche devs go this route. EasyRoot left the market, Alchemy (game) only let's you buy "full" versions off the market, etc. You'll still get plenty o' business, you can just shout it from the rooftops that it's Droid X 2.2 only. Or maybe change the name of the app to "Droid X 2.2 Real HDMI"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perm View Post
    Read his post... the app is being pulled from the market. If you already bought it and used it for the last month, you aren't getting a refund. He's attempting to support the CURRENT users of the app, rather than create more users that will be unhappy.
    I did read his post.
    Still a valid question.
    A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.

    Only the Skilled Survive

    A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila.

    Drill Sergeant Frick's Rules For Un-armed Combat.
    1. Never be unarmed.
    2. See Rule #1

    USMC rule # 23 of gunfighting: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.



  9. #8

    Thanks

    Gman,

    Thanks for all your work on this to date. I purchased this app when it first came out. It's not perfect, but it's alot more that Verizon/Motorola gave us. I just upgraded to 2.2 OTA, then rooted - YEAH!!!!!, then saw your update message - bummer.

    Refund? Heck no I don't want a refund! I would rather be patient and hope that you don't get discouraged. Put another donate app out there (or another avenue) for your community of followers and let those of us who have followed you from the beginning of this project continue to support its development.

    You also have several willing testers. Let us know if you want us to test any scenarios for you.

    Once again... Thanks!
    Chris

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    This app worked when I bought it, and I also understood that it's a work in progress.
    I have no issues paying $2 for it.

    If you feel like taking it off the market until you can get it working with 2.2, then more power to you.
    No I don't want a refund. And yes, I can wait.

    Don't let the haters bring you down. It's more than awesome that you've come on these BBS and explained what's going on.

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    gman,
    Just want to say thanks for the explanation and everything.
    I haven't bought Real HDMI, but this post makes me want to donate to your future endeavors. If more developers handled situations the way you have, the world would be a better place.

    Thanks.

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