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View Full Version : Why is a locked bootloader a bad thing?



mdkpnj
05-30-2011, 08:55 PM
I'd like to understand why a locked bootloader is a problem. I came to the X from WinMo Samsung Omnia 2. That phone was almost impossible to brick as long as you only flashed the PDA (or Windows Mobile) portion of its ROM. As long a you did not try to flash the phone or basic boot function parts, you could always reflash even if WinMo would not boot.

To me, if you can flash customized roms on the X, without having to worry about damaging the bootloader (since it is locked); then even if a flash fails you can always reflash.

Is that right or am I missing something? What does an unlocked bootloader give you?

Thanks.

1KDS
05-30-2011, 09:16 PM
An unlocked bootloader gives you freedom past what the manufacturer/carrier sees fit. All the ROMs we are using for the DX are based on OTA updates from Motorizon, when the OTA updates stop, the custom ROMs stop. Look at the original Droid, it is running gingerbread and hasn't been officially updated for quite some time. So we will have official GB for the DX soon, all future ROMs will be based on this update... unless of course the bootloader is cracked/keys leaked.

ejgilkey
05-30-2011, 09:17 PM
I personally would enjoy being able to run Cyanogenmod. Which is a full custom rom, which includes a custom kernel which optimizes performance. With an unlocked phone, you can also replace the stock recovery with Clockwork. This alone would enable us to fix a lot of problems without needing to SBF everytime. It would increase the risk of truely bricking your phone if you're being reckless. It is pretty amazing what the devs have still been able to do with this phone, bootstrapping, system roms, overclocking etc. Cvpcs I believe is still working on bringing Cyanogenmod to the DX, but it has to be built to work with the stock DX kernel, which makes it very difficult to make the entire phone work properly. Thats my take on the issue, there are many who understand it much better than I do who could give you a more technical explaination.

Nerdslogic
05-30-2011, 09:22 PM
Locked is bad..... unlocked is bad too..... best to me would be unlockable/relockable like the Nexus line

Sent from my DROIDX using Droid X Forums

duro78
05-30-2011, 10:29 PM
Theoretically speaking the roms we use aren't true roms right?

Sent from my DROIDX using Droid X Forums

Abe21599
05-30-2011, 10:38 PM
Theoretically speaking the roms we use aren't true roms right?

Sent from my DROIDX using Droid X Forums

compared to D1 roms, no. but whats the actual definition of a ROM? anything done to further personalize a phone, then yea, id say it is.

kinjo28
06-02-2011, 05:30 PM
http://droidphonereviews.net/motorola-droid-xs-bootloader-key-leaked-by-developer-custom-roms-to-follow/

t( '_' t) ™

kinjo28
06-02-2011, 05:34 PM
Sorry.. http://androidgingerbread.info/droid-x2-bootloader.html

t( '_' t) ™

C Dippa
06-02-2011, 05:47 PM
Sorry.. Droid x2 bootloader - Droid x 2 locked bootloader - Droid x2 locked bootloader - Droid x2 bootloader | Motorola Sholes (http://androidgingerbread.info/droid-x2-bootloader.html)

t( '_' t) ™

That article was copy/pasted word for word from an engadget article about the X from last year. So far, no bricked phones due to the efuse on the X...

Motorola responds to Droid X bootloader controversy, says eFuse isn't there to break the phone -- Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/16/motorola-responds-to-droid-x-bootloader-controversy-says-efuse/)

kinjo28
06-02-2011, 05:58 PM
Sweet

t( '_' t) ™

HarleyDude
06-02-2011, 06:21 PM
An unlocked bootloader gives you freedom past what the manufacturer/carrier sees fit. All the ROMs we are using for the DX are based on OTA updates from Motorizon, when the OTA updates stop, the custom ROMs stop. Look at the original Droid, it is running gingerbread and hasn't been officially updated for quite some time. So we will have official GB for the DX soon, all future ROMs will be based on this update... unless of course the bootloader is cracked/keys leaked.

LOL, my og Droid is running android 2.3.4, my X is at 2.3.3

1861418615

Asharad
06-02-2011, 07:24 PM
To the OP: Look at it this way....

Let's say you purchased a computer from Dell, and as part of the package you purchased an internet subscription with VZW. The computer comes with Windows Vista and pre-installed 30-day trial software. Now answer a few questions:

1. Do you have the right, as owner of the computer, to remove the pre-installed antivirus and other bloatware?

2. Do you have the right to install a different OS (assuming you hold a licensed copy)?

3. Do you have the right to repartition the hard-drive, and install two operating systems (one of which was supplied by Dell)?

4. Now tell me, how is the modern smart phone different from a computer?

swalker
06-02-2011, 08:04 PM
To the OP: Look at it this way....

Let's say you purchased a computer from Dell, and as part of the package you purchased an internet subscription with VZW. The computer comes with Windows Vista and pre-installed 30-day trial software. Now answer a few questions:

1. Do you have the right, as owner of the computer, to remove the pre-installed antivirus and other bloatware?

2. Do you have the right to install a different OS (assuming you hold a licensed copy)?

3. Do you have the right to repartition the hard-drive, and install two operating systems (one of which was supplied by Dell)?

4. Now tell me, how is the modern smart phone different from a computer?

I agree on one hand but...look at all the problems people have modding the phones now(with locked BL) can you imagine the things people would do,and you know they would, to really brick the phone? Or is it easier to fix things if BL was unlocked?

Liberty ...the only way to fly!

Nerdslogic
06-02-2011, 08:11 PM
I agree on one hand but...look at all the problems people have modding the phones now(with locked BL) can you imagine the things people would do,and you know they would, to really brick the phone? Or is it easier to fix things if BL was unlocked?

Liberty ...the only way to fly!

You don't think people have the same amount of issues with computers? Please dude I have seen so many f'd up computers from people OC'ing without a clue of what they are doin that it is absolutely amazing. Not to mention computers that have had upwards of 6 different antivirus applications all installed and running at the same time. People thinking CD ROM's are cupholders, people sliding CD's into the old school floppy disk slots, people reformatting and reinstalling OS's due to failure to boot errors from floppies being left in.....come on man.....I can keep going if you wish.

Usquanigo
06-02-2011, 08:46 PM
You don't think people have the same amount of issues with computers? Please dude I have seen so many f'd up computers from people OC'ing without a clue of what they are doin that it is absolutely amazing. Not to mention computers that have had upwards of 6 different antivirus applications all installed and running at the same time. People thinking CD ROM's are cupholders, people sliding CD's into the old school floppy disk slots, people reformatting and reinstalling OS's due to failure to boot errors from floppies being left in.....come on man.....I can keep going if you wish.

OEMs provide restore CD/DVDs or individual discs for step by step re-install. They either choose to account for tech support to walk people through this as part of the warranty, OR, they leave people on their own for software issues. Most places (like CompUSA when it was open) automatically charge for software problems, even if they warrented the device. Microsoft, for example, charges $250 per support call, takes the card info up front, and only waives the chage if there is actuall a problem with their product.

Even hardware warranties often don't cover for certain types of failure (such as liquid spills). Basically in the world of computers, people are on their own. Warranties can only be counted on for actual problems with the product, but not User Error.

Compared to smart phones where the carriers are assumed to be responsible under warranty, and often do end up eating the cost of User Error.

The computer comparison also breaks down when it comes to the fact that PCs are not provided by, nor locked to, specific ISPs and don't require a network connection. Arguably they aren't so intimately connected to the user or network as cell phones are either.

Still, it would suck to miss out on ICS if Moto doesn't decide to provide it, or the keys. That may actually be part of the reason behind the locking, forcing people to upgrade.

swalker
06-02-2011, 08:52 PM
You don't think people have the same amount of issues with computers? Please dude I have seen so many f'd up computers from people OC'ing without a clue of what they are doin that it is absolutely amazing. Not to mention computers that have had upwards of 6 different antivirus applications all installed and running at the same time. People thinking CD ROM's are cupholders, people sliding CD's into the old school floppy disk slots, people reformatting and reinstalling OS's due to failure to boot errors from floppies being left in.....come on man.....I can keep going if you wish.

Please dude? Come on man? What the hell are you talking about? I asked if fixing phones was easier if BL was unlocked! Why do you respond like that

Liberty ...the only way to fly!

Megalosdog
06-02-2011, 09:03 PM
I believe that moto locked it down is to prevent problems caused by flashing and modding etc......they are probably tired of replacing phones due to people screwing up their phones, which I can't blame them...60% of posts I see on any android forum are people looking for answers to problems mostly due to some form of modding

Asharad
06-03-2011, 05:51 AM
OEMs provide restore CD/DVDs or individual discs for step by step re-install. Phone manufacturers could, if they chose to provide such support.


Most places (like CompUSA when it was open) automatically charge for software problems This is the inevitable outcome, should phones be sold with unlocked BL.


Compared to smart phones where the carriers are assumed to be responsible under warranty, and often do end up eating the cost of User Error. That's due to market planning, not because of an underlying difference between smart phones and PCs.


The computer comparison also breaks down when it comes to the fact that PCs are not provided by, nor locked to, specific ISPsAgain, that's due to market planning.


and don't require a network connection. I argue that they need a connection as much as a my DX does.


Try playing Arguably they aren't so intimately connected to the user or network as cell phones are either. Oh really? Clicky (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dell+-+Inspiron+Mini+Netbook+/+Intel%26%23174%3B+Atom%26%23153%3B+Processor+/+10.1%22+Display+/+1GB+Memory+/+250GB+Hard+Drive+-+Obsidian+Black/9935248.p?id=1218197356459&skuId=9935248)


Still, it would suck to miss out on ICS if Moto doesn't decide to provide it, or the keys. That may actually be part of the reason behind the locking, forcing people to upgrade. You're catching on... market planning. What if you couldn't upgrade your Dell from Vista to Windows 7, because the device was "end of life"?

Asharad
06-03-2011, 05:51 AM
I believe that moto locked it down is to prevent problems caused by flashing and modding etc......they are probably tired of replacing phones due to people screwing up their phones, which I can't blame them...60% of posts I see on any android forum are people looking for answers to problems mostly due to some form of modding Bingo

Asharad
06-03-2011, 06:01 AM
Or is it easier to fix things if BL was unlocked? If they manufactured a truly open phone, then why couldn't it be as easy as a PC? It's just a lack of effort and support from the manufacturers, because the carrier doesn't want you to modify your phone. It hurts their bottom line when a newb customer returns a phone for replacement, when the customer is clearly at fault. It also hurts their bottom line if you can keep your device modernized, since you won't be signing another 2-year contract to get another phone.

I say the key difference is the market plan, not the device. 4 years ago, a phone had little relation to a computer. Now it IS a computer, with a phone radio. What makes it different from this device (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dell+-+Inspiron+Mini+Netbook+/+Intel%26%23174%3B+Atom%26%23153%3B+Processor+/+10.1%22+Display+/+1GB+Memory+/+250GB+Hard+Drive+-+Obsidian+Black/9935248.p?id=1218197356459&skuId=9935248)?

Luckster
06-03-2011, 06:42 AM
I want "True" ROMS! :)

Usquanigo
06-03-2011, 09:45 AM
You're catching on... market planning. What if you couldn't upgrade your Dell from Vista to Windows 7, because the device was "end of life"?

What's with the attitude? Tell ya what in that case, something you haven't quite caught on to yet is the difference between the markets. The evolution of the markets makes a huge amount of difference, and it runs clear through it, from the top of the companies involved, right down to the end user. This is NOT something that can easily change.

Phone companies have always been hyper paranoid about phreakers (since Woz's red box). They initiall provided end-point devices as well, and never had to worry too much about the mass public doing things to their network, nor being responsible for the end users screwing up their end point devices.

Computers started out as the domain of geeks. The drive is to make them more "accessible" (unfortunately) but it's still largely stuck in the mind-set of the MITS Altair where you assembled it yourself from a kit and were on your own. For some reason, possibly because of that, possibly because of Jobs, the public at large screams bloody murder if they have to think at all or learn anything regarding their computer. They joke about being unable to set their VCR clock, but don't really care, and are perfectly ok learning to drive or perform any other skill, it's only computers that must be thoughtless.

Phones are not computers, and computers are not phones. Yes, WE know the Droid X IS a mirco computer, but the guy who thinks that it's ok to click on a phishing link in his email does not. So while computer OEMs can basically wash their hands of it and say "sorry, not our problem, YOU screwed up" and get away with it, Tel-Cos won't. People won't stand for it

In theory it would be great.... FOR US at least.... if the smart phone OEMs and networks opened things up more like the desktop and laptop computer market, but it's not going to happen just because you/we want it to. You need to change the whole perception, and good luck with that.

(BTW, the same thing happens with gaming consoles too)

Asharad
06-03-2011, 10:48 PM
I have an attitude? Sorry for that.

As I see it, we're in agreement that the big difference is the business plan. I agree, the evolution of the PC was far different from the smartphone. But I think they are on a collision course, and will reach singularity soon enough. The business plan will change, albeit with some stiff resistance.