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wicked
04-07-2011, 02:52 AM
Google’s Andy Rubin has stepped up (http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2011/04/i-think-im-having-gene-amdahl-moment.html) to address concerns over Android fragmentation and rumors that the search giant is clamping down on modifications to the open-source OS. Challenging reports last week (http://www.slashgear.com/google-puts-android-on-lock-down-non-fragmentation-contracts-standardized-arm-chips-more-31143565/) that Google had embarked on a new, stricter policy toward manufacturers (http://www.slashgear.com/googles-android-anti-fragmentation-push-is-vital-01143896/) altering Android, giving priority to those companies who left the OS in its untampered state, Rubin insisted that there was no “one size fits all” solution and that the delay in releasing the Android 3.0 Honeycomb source code “does not represent a change in strategy.”



http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/android_fragmentation1-580x399.jpg




Instead, Rubin says, Android developers are “still hard at work to bring all the new Honeycomb features to phones” and that “as soon as this work is completed, we’ll publish the code.” As for talk of preventing modifications in the name of anti-fragmentation, Rubin argues that the program has in fact been in place since Android 1.0, and that all of the founding Open Handset Alliance members signed up to the policy back in 2007.


Continue reading @ Slash Gear (http://www.slashgear.com/android-still-open-insists-googles-andy-rubin-anti-fragmentation-rumors-are-fud-07144800/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+slashgear+%28SlashGear%29)

Dustin0308
04-07-2011, 06:23 AM
Nice find

Sent from my DROIDX using Droid X Forums

eric eakin
04-07-2011, 06:42 AM
I dont see how anyone or any company who builds off "open source" could ever in their right mind try to make it otherwise! Open source is just as it says for a reason!!!!

Konceptz804
04-07-2011, 11:57 AM
Endgadget's version of the article hints that honeycomb is coming to phones.....

tgyberg
04-07-2011, 12:17 PM
Endgadget's version of the article hints that honeycomb is coming to phones.....

That would be awesome! Need a leaked/rooted version to play with asap!!

bsbabcock
04-07-2011, 02:52 PM
And Moto-rizon needs to follow suit.. :) Open open open sesame! Free up that boooooooooooootloader.

macpro88
04-07-2011, 02:58 PM
You can't have your cake and eat it to, if you want a true, un-fragmented, well rounded OS, then you need to be strict, just like Apple is with iOS. This is why iOS is such a great mobile OS, cause they have it locked down tight, but it does not leave room for people to hack away at like some of us here like to do.

If you want an open source OS that we can all hack away at and have fun with, deal with it being fragmented, there really isn't anything you can do.

So if Google decides to take the Apple approach, then we should just all buy iPhones, cause lets face it, IMO, stock Android kinda stinks.... And if Google does get more strict, it will still be some time before it really is a remarkable OS like iOS.

Johnny V
04-07-2011, 03:03 PM
I agree with macpro. Our freedom to play with the OS comes with the side-effect of fragmentation. If Google ever does lock up its OS, it will lose its current edge over Apple. IMHO, this advantage comes from the fact that its open source, and not because it's a better phone out of the box.

bsbabcock
04-07-2011, 03:29 PM
Open source can lead to log jams of debugging why this and that aren't playing well together because neither are standard, but that's part of the fun I guess.

If it were my Google, my take would be mod away and improve if you can, let's share the fun and make it better, but here's the Gold Standard.. If you break it because of something non-standard, you fix it or revert back to standard. But I'd also foster a healthy relationship with mod'ing developers among the "masses" with the sure-enough inside-guys on the Android team.. As well as the work I'm sure they do WITH the carriers for their specs and needs. But I may be showing my ignorance as that relationship and sharing of dev work may already exist to a point at some level. Of course if it were my Google, I'd probably tell the carriers that bloatware deals are non-standard and they should C&D unless they at least offer plain vanilla unlocked as an option at phone setup. Seems like tethering is the big big deal there though. If it weren't that they want their cut for running your tablet/laptop off your phone seems like the whole thing would be golden.

... whew. Did I just say all that?!?! Sorry I do realize I know way nothing about what I'm talking about ya know. :) Humility in check. LOL!

Smittys
04-07-2011, 03:29 PM
So if Google decides to take the Apple approach, then we should just all buy iPhones, cause lets face it, IMO, stock Android kinda stinks.... And if Google does get more strict, it will still be some time before it really is a remarkable OS like iOS.

stock android doesn't stink. im satisfied with it. it still is 100 times more customizable than iOS

Sent from my stock 2.2 Frozen Yogurt DrOiD X

macpro88
04-07-2011, 05:06 PM
stock android doesn't stink. im satisfied with it. it still is 100 times more customizable than iOS

Sent from my stock 2.2 Frozen Yogurt DrOiD X

IMO (in my opinion) stock Android stinks :p Stock iOS gets great battery life and IMO just easier to use. I am never too worried about customization, as long as my mobile device works with sufficient battery life I am satisfied. Again, IN MY OPINION :p

Soon enough, Google is going to realize how much money they could be saving by switching to GEICO, I mean, by locking down Android. And when that time comes, Android will then be a better stock mobile device OS and be able to compete with Apple in Profit Share (not Market Share, I know Android has a slightly larger Market Share than iOS, but what do you care more about, the money right?).

JNEHAMA
04-07-2011, 05:40 PM
I disagree that stock android is no good. I think it works well unless you overload it and it certainly is more customizable than ios... think home replacements launchers, widgets etc. And my experience with stock gingerbread was great. I would have no problem staying on unrooted gingerbread if I had to. Definitely more so than ios. As to battery time I just had my first ios experience (except ipod nano) on my daughter's itouch. I was expecting it to last a long time but it's down to 20% after a 30min video and @hour and a half. Of other active use and @10 hrs idle. My DX does better with much more use if I keep the screen down to lower illuminattion. And ios is boring!

As to the tightly closed but reliable and open but fragmented system, my guess that the best lies somewhere inbetween. You want reliability but people will get bored with no versatility. Hopefullu, Google can find that happy place. I'm hoping some of their restrictions will be on the carrier and stop them from putting so much awful stuff on the phones. The major problem lies with the carriers, they have to much power over the phone makers, Googles main leverage is the software, so they need to control it in order to get concessions. Hopefully they will find that middle place.

Sent from my DROIDX using Droid X Forums

Usquanigo
04-08-2011, 09:14 AM
You can't have your cake and eat it to, if you want a true, un-fragmented, well rounded OS, then you need to be strict, just like Apple is with iOS. This is why iOS is such a great mobile OS, cause they have it locked down tight, but it does not leave room for people to hack away at like some of us here like to do.

'Cept that it's not a "great mobile OS". I realize your username is "mac pro", so you have a bias, but the simple fact is, after I did my research this summer in advance of moving to a smart phone from a Razr, I realized that, to actually spend money on, Android is the way to go, hands down (the DX, in particular at that time). iOS has absolutely nothing over stock 2.2 on the DX. Nothing that counts - "retina display" and front facing camera are gimmicks and nothing more.

Prior to doing the research, I was partial to the iPhone, I played with a few and just pegged ALL Android phones as 'also-rans' and wannabes. I was however, platform agnostic, open to even BlackBerry. But in the end, the clear choice was the DX.

I still am not yet rooted, so I am totally stock.

This "fragmentation" stuff is all just FUD pushed by people wanting to make headlines (and Apple, wanting to try to fight back). Remember "way" back in 2006? You bought a phone based on what IT could do. Not the OS it ran. How is this any different? Why should it be? If you want to view the entire web (ie, Flash Content), then anything running 2.1 won't cut it. So you get 2.2 or above. But you don't even need to know version numbers, you just look for the breakdown of specs and see "flash capable" or whatever, and there ya go.

I want gingerbread, but I'm also a geek and like cool stuff. If I wasn't on these forums I wouldn't even likely be aware of it and wouldn't care. So I'm absolutely not missing anything or suffering by being on 2.2 while other phones have 2.3. It might be "fragmentation", but it's also completly irrelevant.

Any attempt to tighten things up will be very Jobs-ian, and thus, inherently bad. As it is I've read a headline that said Moto is getting frustrated with the restrictions of Android. If it gets worse, then Google loses one of the best handset makers out there. How is that good for them or us or anybody?


So if Google decides to take the Apple approach, then we should just all buy iPhones, cause lets face it, IMO, stock Android kinda stinks.... And if Google does get more strict, it will still be some time before it really is a remarkable OS like iOS.

Spoken like a true Apple guy. As said above, this quoted comment could not be more wrong. (and the numbers reflect this too)

macpro88
04-08-2011, 09:48 AM
'Cept that it's not a "great mobile OS". I realize your username is "mac pro", so you have a bias, but the simple fact is, after I did my research this summer in advance of moving to a smart phone from a Razr, I realized that, to actually spend money on, Android is the way to go, hands down (the DX, in particular at that time). iOS has absolutely nothing over stock 2.2 on the DX. Nothing that counts - "retina display" and front facing camera are gimmicks and nothing more.

Prior to doing the research, I was partial to the iPhone, I played with a few and just pegged ALL Android phones as 'also-rans' and wannabes. I was however, platform agnostic, open to even BlackBerry. But in the end, the clear choice was the DX.

I still am not yet rooted, so I am totally stock.

This "fragmentation" stuff is all just FUD pushed by people wanting to make headlines (and Apple, wanting to try to fight back). Remember "way" back in 2006? You bought a phone based on what IT could do. Not the OS it ran. How is this any different? Why should it be? If you want to view the entire web (ie, Flash Content), then anything running 2.1 won't cut it. So you get 2.2 or above. But you don't even need to know version numbers, you just look for the breakdown of specs and see "flash capable" or whatever, and there ya go.

I want gingerbread, but I'm also a geek and like cool stuff. If I wasn't on these forums I wouldn't even likely be aware of it and wouldn't care. So I'm absolutely not missing anything or suffering by being on 2.2 while other phones have 2.3. It might be "fragmentation", but it's also completly irrelevant.

Any attempt to tighten things up will be very Jobs-ian, and thus, inherently bad. As it is I've read a headline that said Moto is getting frustrated with the restrictions of Android. If it gets worse, then Google loses one of the best handset makers out there. How is that good for them or us or anybody?



Spoken like a true Apple guy. As said above, this quoted comment could not be more wrong. (and the numbers reflect this too)

Again, this was stated as IMO (in MY opinion), no need for the little attack. Yes, I am a Mac fan and own Mac computers, I also own Windows based machines as well. I work with both in the field as a network technician, so not really biased, just have my preferences. If I was biased and a true "Apple Fan Boy," I would not be here....

Most of all this talk about fragmentation comes from the developers (big developers and publishers) complaining how hard it is to develop for Android, its no "FUD". Case in point, "Epic Games Studio" announced they will not develop for Android because its too fragmented thus making it difficult to develop for phones that have completely different hardware specs than others. To me, one big company like Epic not jumping on Android says something big to the rest of the industry. It won't just be Epic, it will bet other developers as well that won't develop for Android, and there are already are a number of large studios that won't develop for Android as it. This is huge for Android's future.

The Apple App Store has a vast amount of apps, way more than Android could ever dream of, and Android has been out long enough to at least have numbers in closer competition to Apple, but they don't. If Google really wants to compete with Apple and be compared as apples to apples, they need to more strict and become less fragmented, so that they can have more developers on their side. One of the HUGE selling points for the iOS, is its App Store and the wealthy amount of apps available. Whats the point of having a great OS and phone like Android and the DX if there are no apps for it, kinda makes the whole smart phone scene kinda pointless if you ask me. The reason the phones sell is because of the promise of access to mobile Apps. No apps, you have no customers. Would you buy a smartphone if it had no apps?

Don't get me wrong, I love this phone, (as I still have it, otherwise I would have sold it when I heard about the iPhone a few months later) and it really is a great phone, and yes, I agree, if Moto jumps ships, and they try their hand at their own OS, Google will loose one of the best phone manufacturers out there, hands down. But Google knows this, and trust me, I am sure they will do what they can to keep Moto with Android, they aren't just gonna say "see ya later."

Remember, corporations don't care about what we want, they really don't, its all about how they can make more money for themselves and their partners while giving off the illusion that they actually care about us consumers. Its why Apple is such a linear company, not allowing anyone else to run their software but themselves, they know they can make more money this way, and they do, and it shows in their technology that they put out. You would have to be completely blind and biased to say that Apple puts out "crap" products. Cause that's why they hold higher profit shares than any other company and why they are worth more on the NYSE. Again, IMO, this is why I feel Steve Jobs is one of the best CEO's in the Tech Industry, his team actually pushes the limits with technology and comes up with new ideas and pushes them, pushes them HARD. Flash for example, they don't like it, cause they want to push HTML5 which, if you have ever played with it, is far better than flash. Apple innovates products for the future, while other companies struggle to keep.... And its been that way for quit some time now. Its not about who has the greatest hardware anymore, it's who has the greatest software to compliment that hardware, and IMO, Apple does a better job at that than any other company.

Like I said, companies cant always have their cake and eat it to, if they want to make more money and provide a far superior product to compete with in the market, there are going to have to be some changes, and it will make some partners mad and others happy.

It will truly be interesting to see what happens to Android in the next 6 months or so.

scottpole
04-08-2011, 09:54 AM
First off id like to say that macpro is not biased at all. Secondly the opinion your coming off with is the one sounding biast. Lets be fair here, the outright demand for iphones is staggering and the popularity of them right alongside. You even say you have barely used iphones yourself so how could you really say that it is for better or worse. And another operating system will never be factually better than the next. Its all opinion based. Each os has their strongs and weaks. And ios does have advantages over android and vice versa. Iphones os has alot more consitency over android as far as speed and performance. Sure its a much more depth lacking os but you sacrifice one thing to gain another. Android is a very deep customizable fulfilling os that can be a little buggy at times. This is merely my opinion. The iphone has tons of really good developers and companies standing right behind the os pumping quality apps and games by the numbers. Androids market is full of half thought apps that weren't meant as a serious run. Androids quality apps are just now growing in numbers as companies finally come on board. Which brings me to fragmentation. A very REAL issue. To say that it is merely hearsay is ignorant. Look how many developers stray from android because of the inconsistent platform that it is. Your on a top of the line device and your not even up to date. Unless your rooted and running the leak lol. How could unifying all android devices into the same version be jobians. It would be a strong move to push android even further into the game. I've noted all of the lows of android here but coming from a person who used iphones and was really into what they were capable of I've gotten great experiences with a jailbroken device. Stock experience was bland. Now I will say the same thing about android. I've had a great deal of time with this os and stock experience may not be bland but it can feel lacking. Rooted definitly gives you control and once rooted I fell in love with my x. What I've said here is merely my opinion and im inhereted to that right. But you say someone else seems biased when in my view your the one coming off as biased. Again my opinion. Just didn't think it was fair without the proper amount of time given to each os. Thanks
Im done

:P Tasty Frozen Yogurt

scottpole
04-08-2011, 10:00 AM
Woops macpro beat me by a smidge :). Like mac said if he was a biast apple fanboy why would he be on a droid x forum and running an android powered phone, an iphones worst enemy. Again my opinion..

:P Tasty Frozen Yogurt

Usquanigo
04-08-2011, 10:33 AM
Again, this was stated as IMO (in MY opinion), no need for the little attack. Yes, I am a Mac fan and own Mac computers, I also own Windows based machines as well. I work with both in the field as a network technician, so not really biased, just have my preferences. If I was biased and a true "Apple Fan Boy," I would not be here....

Such an opinion can only be arrived at by being an apple fan.



Most of all this talk about fragmentation comes from the developers (big developers and publishers) complaining how hard it is to develop for Android, its no "FUD". Case in point, "Epic Games Studio"

Who?



announced they will not develop for Android because its too fragmented thus making it difficult to develop for phones that have completely different hardware specs than others. To me, one big company like Epic not jumping on Android says something big to the rest of the industry. It won't just be Epic, it will bet other developers as well that won't develop for Android, and there are already are a number of large studios that won't develop for Android as it. This is huge for Android's future.

I see. Because people buy a phone to play games, rather than a PS(#) or X-box or Wii or PC or even PSP or DS.

Phones are not a valid game device by virtue of their size. Angry Birds is about the best for the form factor. Tablets are more friendly to this, but still, REAL games are only to be had on PCs or consoles.

As far as the importance of games..... would an apple guy really say that games are vital to a platforms success (or existence), given that the game selection for Mac is about 5 years old and can be counted on one's fingers?



The Apple App Store has a vast amount of apps, way more than Android could ever dream of, and Android has been out long enough to at least have numbers in closer competition to Apple, but they don't.

Only Steve Jobs sees this as some sort of bragging point. Most Android apps are fluff. No offense intended to those who developted them, but there really are only so many things to be done. Very quickly you start to encounter duplicate apps (different apps that do the same thing), or frivolous apps that are completely unecessary. The sort of apps that make a platform, the kind of thing you might advertize on TV... those are on all the platforms already. WP7 just hit 11.5K, all the major ones are there, now it's just building it's fluff library to boast numbers.



If Google really wants to compete with Apple and be compared as apples to apples, they need to more strict and become less fragmented, so that they can have more developers on their side. One of the HUGE selling points for the iOS, is its App Store and the wealthy amount of apps available.

One of the HUGE points pushing customers and devs to Android is the Apple App Store, and the way Jobs lords over it.

Google has already left Apple behind in # of activated handsets. The prime reason to develop for the iPhone was #s. It was the only game in town, the only thing able to do any of that stuff until Android came along, and then, nobody used it, so who cared? Not so anymore. And with the addition of in app payment and NFC... it's just going to get worse.

Apples policies are going to see it in RIM's current position. If Google wants to marginalize Apple, they need to keep doing what they've been doing. If they actually want to "compete" - as in be on a par - with Apple, then yes, do what Apple does, and stifle their own sales to drop down to Apples level.



Whats the point of having a great OS and phone like Android and the DX if there are no apps for it, kinda makes the whole smart phone scene kinda pointless if you ask me. The reason the phones sell is because of the promise of access to mobile Apps. No apps, you have no customers. Would you buy a smartphone if it had no apps?

See above. "No apps". You can't possibly be serious.

The average person buys a smart phone to have email on the go, and maybe twit-face-space access as well. Every platform does that. Even BlackBerry. After that, they might look for features like music, navi, and the ability to access their home TV/DVR. That might cut out RIM and WP7, but every Android device can do that. Everything else is just fluff and gimmicks. They'll be swayed by carrier availability, advertising, aesthetics, pricing, and salesman charm.

And apps are their own problem as well. There is something to be said about NOT getting wrapped up in apps. WP7 is forging a new direction and, don't beleive the hype, they ARE being successful with it. It's a good platform. No Android, but still a good platform. (as too, for the average joe, the iphone is a good platform too - IF you don't mind being a vassal to Lord Steve and don't mind running that horribly atrocious itunes to do absolutely anything with your phone - but at least it looks nice and has great hardware, even if the screen is a postage stamp by modern standards)

FWIW - I don't really care for linux. I'm a Windows guy. But WP7 isn't ready yet. And despite being linux, Android just works, works damn well, and is simply both a good phone OS in it's own right, but also the best out there at the moment.



Remember, corporations don't care about what we want, they really don't, its all about how they can make more money for themselves and their partners while giving off the illusion that they actually care about us consumers. Its why Apple is such a linear company, not allowing anyone else to run their software but themselves, they know they can make more money this way, and they do, and it shows in their technology that they put out.

It shows in their market share too. The iMac doubled their market share when it first shipped (the old CRT bondi blues), and they only reached 10%. And they pretty much don't even exist in the enterprise space - because of the things you said above. Sorta like how Beta-max did so well against VHS.



You would have to be completely blind and biased to say that Apple puts out "crap" products.

Crap computers (more specifically the OS, since these days they are basically x86 PCs underneath in terms of hardware), but in very slick cases. Good monitors, and good non-computer gadgets and gizmos, but stifled and harmed by their Orwellian behavior.



Cause that's why they hold higher profit shares than any other company and why they are worth more on the NYSE. Again, IMO, this is why I feel Steve Jobs is one of the best CEO's in the Tech Industry, his team actually pushes the limits with technology and comes up with new ideas and pushes them, pushes them HARD. Flash for example, they don't like it, cause they want to push HTML5 which, if you have ever played with it, is far better than flash. Apple innovates products for the future, while other companies struggle to keep.... And its been that way for quit some time now. Its not about who has the greatest hardware anymore, it's who has the greatest software to compliment that hardware, and IMO, Apple does a better job at that than any other company.

Doesn't that hook you swallowed scratch your throat? lol! Good lord....



Like I said, companies cant always have their cake and eat it to, if they want to make more money and provide a far superior product to compete with in the market....

...they should put out an open product that lets OEMs have some differentiation in the market space, be available on all carriers, and appeal to geeks as well as common people. Then they can surpass iOS handily. Hey wait a minute.... this sounds VERY familiar..... :LOL:

; - )

Usquanigo
04-08-2011, 10:59 AM
You even say you have barely used iphones yourself so how could you really say that it is for better or worse.

HAVE used. YOU interpreted that as "barely". Sounds to me like you are just coming to the defense of a friend from an unknown n00b who has had words with him.

I can easily say if it's better or worse. Hands-on aside, the facts are available for all to see if they care to actually do the research. Including both side-by-side spec comparison, and also video reviews that actually demonstrate features, like call quality and noise cancellation quality (the X wiped the floor with the iPhone in a back to back noise cancellation test - this was a conclusion arrived at not by the reviewer and written, but from actually hearing the results first hand).

Seriously... it's not that hard. ; - )




And another operating system will never be factually better than the next. Its all opinion based.

No, there are hard numbers and facts. Again, it's not that hard to total them up and see which one is better. It's akin to a basic CBA (cost/benefit analysis). It's really a given that each will have certain points over the other, that's really reaching there.



And ios does have advantages over android

Yes, if you have Macs and iTunes is your life and you love the hardware look, then iPhone is the way to go.



Which brings me to fragmentation. A very REAL issue. To say that it is merely hearsay is ignorant.

Yeah, you have some emotion going there for sure. The ignorance is in how you didn't actually understand what I wrote, but still want to take a swipe at me nonetheless.



Your on a top of the line device and your not even up to date.

I'm not on a top of the line device. I'm on the Droid X. The Atrix 4G boasts better hardware, and the Thunderbolt boasts more built in storage and more RAM and faster network connection. The Bionic is also right around the corner (if it's not out already).

However, go back and re-read the post. You can not find one single way in which not being on the latest version harms me. Here's an example I use for people in the computer world - just because you buy a PC or laptop and get home to find that a new faster model is out, that does NOT outdate the one you just bought. If all you need is Wordstar on DOS (just for an outrageous example for the sake of effect), then your 286 is fine and still not outdated for YOU. It's what you DO with it that outdates it. If I need or desire more CPU or Network speed, then I would be on an outdated device. If I found I needed to move to NFC transactions, then I would be on an outdated device. If I found that some app I use all the time has dropped support for 2.2 and only works on 2.3 (like say Flash content), then I would be 'hurt' by this 'fragmentation'.

To 95% of the users out there, it just doesn't matter.



Unless your rooted and running the leak lol. How could unifying all android devices into the same version be jobians. It would be a strong move to push android even further into the game.

You are making a big assumption that this is only about version #. And in the same breath ignoring all the development costs that go into it for the OEMs. And also the fact that they don't like being told what to do, given their druthers.

Unifying can go beyond all that and start to restrict what OEMs can do to differentiate themselves. If an OEM wants to one up the competition, they WILL use the newest version. You don't need a big brother demanding that.


I understand thta it's your opinion and all that. But you are taking me to task for something that is not your fight, so I will respond. Some people just love the aesthetics and love apple, so the iPhone is perfection incarnate for them. Some people know only others with iPhones so it behooves them to get the same, again, for them it's great. But for someone walking in to a smart phone for the first time, iP4 just has too many negatives to be a real contender.

And so, when I see someone named "macpro" claiming that stock Android is inferior, well... yeah, I'll respond and go deep with it. That might make me sound "biased", but that is precisely why I pointed out that I walked into all this in late summer of '10 thinking that iPhone was KING and everything else was a wannabe, and also added that I honestly do not care for linux. In truth, I am actually platform agnostic. I like BB. I wouldn't buy one because it's inferior, but I still like it. The Torch 9800 was really cool. If they can get their act together and proive more value for money, especially now that they are talking about running Android apps, they will be a valid option. Ditto WP7. I like what I see with that - A LOT. Only thing keeping me from it are the facts that I need VZW, it doesn't run Flash (unless that update has shipped), and I already have a Droid and am 'stuck' with it till Sept. '12.

I am interested in the iP5 too. But iTunes is a nightmare, and unless they get OTA working and Jobs drops this idea that YOUR iPhone is actually HIS iPhone, then there just isn't any appeal. It doesn't offer anything that Android (or even WP7) doesn't have or can't do. Even before you get into bang for the buck issues. (which is why it's falling behind in market share btw - and yes, it really is)

Mike7143
04-08-2011, 11:36 AM
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_le9jljsm501qzaxefo1_500.jpg

sorry couldn't help.

macpro88
04-08-2011, 11:41 AM
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_le9jljsm501qzaxefo1_500.jpg

sorry couldn't help.

Haha, I know right.

And of course I am an Apple fan, it my prerogative, its everyone's prerogative to be a fan and be biased.

The fact is that we all have our own opinions and we all want to be right no matter what. We could go on for ever about this and its just going to go in circles.

That is all.

closer
04-08-2011, 12:40 PM
Does this mean that we'll be seeing more optional components/software from manufactures, instead of them being built in?

scottpole
04-08-2011, 01:07 PM
All im saying is you can't argue that one os is better than another. It is impossible to say "well this os is better than this one." There is no operating system that "has it all." If there is let me know because i've been out of the loop. And you talk about a test of noise cancellation this has nothing to do with a phones software so therefore is not a valid statement against an os's performance. And im no n00b coming to the aid of a friend im someone defending another person because of a blind assumption of being a biast apple fanboy based directly on his username and the statement he made which im sure plenty of other android users would agree with. Including myself and the only apple product I ever had was an iphone which I don't have.

:P Tasty Frozen Yogurt

wikkdwarrior
04-08-2011, 01:23 PM
Lets just get down to basics...cell phone companies charge for wireless tether...what is the# 1 reason most newbies want to root? free tether! In the end it's the phone company losing $ if they don't start locking things down! I'm all for root access...but maybe if we all stopped stealing services...they'd loosen up on trying to make new devices so inaccessible. IMO of course!

Note 2 self: The first step in androidholics anonymous is to admitt that you really do have an addiction!

bsbabcock
04-08-2011, 01:30 PM
Once again thanks mac.. I finally have a little definition of what "fragmentation" actually is and its reprocussions. Reminds me of parallels to the PC market and how it's evolved over the years and it faced a much similar delimna in the "pc" based machines and the Apple machines. With a Mac, there's one company and a finite variation in hardware if any substantial.. It's easily determined what drivers the machine needs, and it's easy for developers to know what they're dealing with in order to write for the platform. PC's are better now but faced "fragmentation-like" issues back in the 90's I remember.. Back in those days we called it "compatibility" issues. Eh, someone used the term "growing pains" earlier. Good term I think to describe the android platform. Trick is a balance of standardization for developers, but openness to manufacturers and again developers.

Usquanigo
04-08-2011, 01:31 PM
All im saying is you can't argue that one os is better than another. It is impossible to say "well this os is better than this one."

Yes. You can. It's quite basica actually.



There is no operating system that "has it all." If there is let me know because i've been out of the loop.

It doesn't have to have "everything" to be better than something else. It seems you don't really understand the concept (<- that's not taking a shot at you, it's an honest observation based on your comments).

(btw - there isn't anything that Android is "missing", if anything, iOS is the one missing something, Flash support)



And you talk about a test of noise cancellation this has nothing to do with a phones software so therefore is not a valid statement against an os's performance.

'twas but one example of a very small part of the overall research done in comparing the iPhone as a complete device to competing products. This is yet more reaching on your part.



And im no n00b coming to the aid of a friend

Once again you didn't understand what was written. I implied that I was the n00b (because I'm an infrequent poster and so not very well known 'round here).



im someone defending another person because of a blind assumption of being a biast apple fanboy based directly on his username and the statement he made which im sure plenty of other android users would agree with. Including myself and the only apple product I ever had was an iphone which I don't have.

The blind assumptions are being made by you, I'm afraid. It shows in each post. Not least of which that I was in any way "attacking" him in the first post I made, or that his username was the sole (or even primary) reason behind it. (I won't bother to list them all as it would make the post too long)

Anyone who agrees that the iPhone as a complete device, or that iOS as an OS is somehow inherently better than Android has not done the research (and/or has a bias - having a bias is part of being human, it's not an epithet).

bsbabcock
04-08-2011, 01:35 PM
I'm a frequent poster and well known absolute IGNORANT newb! LOL! :)

closer
04-08-2011, 02:25 PM
This quote from pcmag sums It up
"Whatever the benefits of Honeycomb, the bottom line is that Android is neither completely open nor totally closed. There is no getting around the fact that Android is Google's platform. Every other vendor and carrier is at best second tier, and most of this posturing is by vendors worried about falling into the third or fourth tier. That might be bad for them, but it isn't really an issue for consumers to worry about. For them the Android ecosystem should be free from fear, uncertainty or doubt."

This is the same reason Verizon trys to block tethering. I don't blame Google for not wanting Verizon/Moto bundling Bing search or something similar.
I've also been seeing alot of talk about moto building their own OS.

bsbabcock
04-08-2011, 03:36 PM
Unless it ran android apps, I truly can't see Moto doing their own OS. But it's not impossible.. I think RIM has some setup that'll run android apps though I'm sure not all android apps. If they go solely proprietary, it could push phones back to totally proprietary, which reeeeeally stunk (IMO).